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JITB 08-05-2009 08:56 AM

I just learned an interesting fact!
At the National Convention, they voted to discontinue the use of the Khaki shirt for Color Guards and other ceremonial units in the Marine Corps League.

Ken Rohlff 01-30-2010 07:53 AM

i'm don't like it either, not just because I have a new Khaki shirt, but the ML uniform was special, you could spot us two blocks away, unlike the VFW, & AL, wearing white shirts and sport coats.
Many ML members say they will march in parades wearing Marine uniforms, and not carry or wear anything that says Marine League.
Last year the VFW, requested that we wear our military uniforms to special affairs. We made a real hit, at schools and dinners. Everyone wanted to take our pic's.
Needless to say it wasn't my original uniform issue, I weigh about the same but I gained 3-4" in the waist.
Ken Rohlff 1626455, 56-59

JITB 01-30-2010 08:14 AM

I can see the reasons why the Khaki shirt was dropped. Many League members did not follow th uniform guidelines of the Marine Corps League. I've seen members wearing DoD ribbons and even rank stripes on their Khaki shirts. The Corps has been generous to the League about the parts of the Marine Corps uniforms we are allowed to wear. But, if we don't follow the uniform regulations of the Corps and the League, we might end up wearing similar uniforms to the uniforms of other Veteran organzations.

I'm not crazy about MCL members wearing Marine Corps uniforms either. There are guidelines for Veterans wearing a Marine Corps uniform in the Corps Uniform Regulations. Those guidelines are often violated. I'm not sure where some members with 50" waists get a set of dress blues but I've seen them. I've also seen Veterans with pony tails or just long hair, beards and other things that violate to regulations. If you can't look like a Marine, don't try!

GunnySan 01-30-2010 09:22 AM

Well said JITB. I've fought this isssue for years. People think they're entitled to wear the Marine uniform anytime they want just because they served 40 or 50 years ago.

JITB 01-30-2010 10:46 AM

Yup! We do have one member of our MCL detachment that does wear his Marine Corps uniforms fairly often. He is a medically retired Corporal that was wounded in Vietnam. The thing with him is he makes an effort to look like a Marine. Hair, body weight and uniforms are all according to USMC Uniform Regulations.

One only has to look through the MCL's magazine, Semper Fi, to see pictures of members not following uniform regulations. Back some years ago, our detachment commandant wanted us to form a color guard. He wanted the color guard to wear white ascots and Campaign covers. I pointed out to him that it would violate MCL uniform guidelines and that I would drop out of the detachment if the detachment went with that uniform.

GunnySan 01-30-2010 11:45 AM

But, you'll agree, he is in a different class, He served in war. That allows him to wear the uniform at appropriate functions. The key word is appropriate . I am in that classification, but when I was commandant I wore the MCL uniform at the Ball. I was asked why I didn't wear Blues since our guest was a General Officer. My response was that I was the Det. Cmdnt, not a GySgt at that function.

Skosh59 01-31-2010 04:54 PM

Marines, here is a copy of a memo from the National Commandant that may clearify some of the concerns stated here.

All Detachments should have received this & distributed it to its membership

Distribution All

From: Executive Director []
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:25 PM
To: Executive Director
Subject: Marine Corps League 2009 Convention Issue

Board of Trustees, PNC’s and Department Commandants –

The National Commandant has asked that I forward the following letter from him to our e-mail list. He asked that you please get it down to your Detachments and all concerned.
The message is clear – it is time to stop all the anger and gnashing of teeth. Working to create divides in the organization is counter-productive. This issue will be properly addressed at the National Convention in North Carolina and no amount of kicking and screaming is going to make it happen sooner. If everyone would just tone down the rhetoric, this can be resolved in a calm and adult like manner then.

Marine Corps League Members and Board of Trustees -

I have reviewed once again, the National Bylaws as they relate to the issue of Khaki shirts that was brought up on the floor at National Convention. I have read and concur with the National JA John Kovalcik’s interpretation of the intent of our Bylaws. Both Gerry Devlin, the National Parliamentarian, and John have pointed out numerous times in "Roberts Rule of Order Revised", that say that if a mistake was made at Convention, then a “point of order” must be raised at that time and not after the Convention has closed.

JA Kovalcik clarifies this point in his statement, "Normally a point of order must only be raised at the time of the alleged breach of order. Failing to raise a point of order usually waives any right to object. There is an exception, which may have confused some. If the question that a proposed action violates the constitution or bylaw it may be raised at any time (section 21 Roberts Rules of Order Revised) this means that it may be raised at any time during the Convention not three months later. When a convention adjourns Sine Die (the final adjournment as opposed to a day to day recess or adjournment) it carries with it all pending business Section 18 Roberts Rules of Order. There is no Parliamentary way for the will of the convention to be modified once the final gavel has fallen." In other words, once the Convention is CLOSED, it would be illegal in accordance with "Roberts Rules" to disregard the will of the “body” (that being the properly elected, registered, and approved Delegates in good standing, on the floor), and alter a proposed Bylaw change or amendment thereto. More importantly, perhaps is the fact that it would do a great disservice to those who attended and participated as Registered Delegates and voted their will, at the National Convention. I would re-iterate here, that this amendment did not originate with the National Board of Trustees, or Marine Corps League National Headquarters. It in fact came from the floor and was approved on the floor.

In reading National Bylaws, Article 100 the intent clearly vests the supreme legislative and policy making power of the Marine Corps League in the National Convention composed of the properly elected, registered and approved Delegates in good standing. The confusion I see between Article 100 and Article 800 of the bylaws involves the implied intent of the delegates’ authority at a convention to make Marine Corps League policy. While Article 100 gives the supreme authority to the delegates at a convention to make policy, Article 800 CH4-95 appears to want to restrict that authority of the delegates to only those bylaw changes submitted for revision, amendment or repeal that were properly submitted to National Headquarters prior to April 1st.

If the current approved amendment on the issue of Khaki shirts were to be changed it would devastate the power of the aforementioned Convention Delegates to act as a body and conduct League business and it would force the will of a relative few members who “after the fact”, disagree with the ruling. This is why a challenge must be brought during the Convention. That would allow those same delegates to debate the validity of the challenge. NJA Kovalcik is correct when he says that “Red Hats Rule”. As your National Commandant I believe in the power of the properly elected, registered, and approved Delegates in good standing to dictate to the duly elected National Officers, the direction of the Marine Corps League and as such, approve or disapprove all amendments brought before the floor of a National Convention. In this context the “National Registered Delegates, present at Convention, rule”. To now remove the rights of the majority of the delegates to decide an issue would be a monumental blow to the rights of the membership to decide any question. Marines, remember it was the majority of the delegates on the convention floor who overwhelming approved the removal of the Khaki shirt from our dress code.

With that being said; I have suggested to the National Judge Advocate that Article 800 should be closely reviewed and consideration given to restating that portion of the Article that might be confusing. It is important to restore the intent of Article 100. The delegates at a National Convention must be able to conduct business and shape Marine Corps League policy, without the interference of a few. This should curtail further problems dealing with all business conducted at the National Convention.

Semper Fidelis
James R. Laskey
National Commandant

JITB 01-31-2010 05:20 PM

I saw that when it first came out. I wonder if the moaning about the Khaki shirt issue might be one of the reasons National closed down the forums on their site? What grabs me is most of the complaining about the decision came from members that did not attend the convention!

I do think dropping the Khaki shirts was probably a good decision. Too many members did not follow uniform regulations when wearing it. It also locked out some members form joining color and ceremonial guards since normal outlets for the shirt could not provide shirts for many of our "waist challenged" members.

Skosh59 02-02-2010 01:15 PM

Its been said that " a Marine is not happy unless he/she is B_tching about something". :GI9:

Skosh59 02-02-2010 01:24 PM

My two pennies worth. I do not totally agree with it either, but regulations are regulations, deal with it. Green side out / brown side out whats the diff ?? We are MARINES, act like one.

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